Assisted Suicide
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Assisted Suicide
by HiJo Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:28 am
The High Court heard of the "dilemma" of a multiple sclerosis sufferer who wants to know whether her husband could be prosecuted if he helps her to kill herself should her life become unbearable.
Wheelchair-bound Debbie Purdy is seeking a landmark ruling to clarify the law on assisted suicide.
In a television interview just hours before the case got under way she accused the Director of Public Prosecutions of "cowardice" in refusing to give proper guidance.
David Pannick QC, appearing for Ms Purdy, 45, from Bradford, West Yorkshire, told two judges: "Her wish is to be able to ask for and receive assistance to end her life should living it become unbearable for her."
Assistance might take the form of getting her to Switzerland, or possibly Belgium, where assisted suicide is lawful.
Ms Purdy and her husband, Cuban jazz violinist Omar Puente, listened as Mr Pannick said: "Her dilemma is that she wants to delay her suicide as long as possible. She wants also to avoid the danger of her husband being prosecuted for assisting her. If he is likely to be prosecuted, then she is much more likely to travel abroad to commit suicide sooner rather than later."
Mr Pannick accused the Director of Public Prosecutions, Sir Ken Macdonald QC, of breaching Ms Purdy's Article 8 right to respect for her personal and family life under the European Convention on Human Rights by failing to publish a policy making clear the circumstances in which he would, or would not, allow a prosecution to proceed.
Although no-one has been prosecuted so far, Mr Pannick asked Lord Justice Scott Baker and Mr Justice Aikens to declare that the law required more information to be published than was currently available in the Code for Crown Prosecutors.
"We say the human rights convention, in accordance with the law of the country, requires the DPP to have and to publish a policy as to how his discretion will be exercised so that Ms Purdy and others like her can make one of the most fundamental decisions about their lives, and their death, with knowledge of the likely legal consequences - and not, as is currently the case, in a state of ignorance about the degree of risk of a criminal charge for a close relative who may help them to end their lives," he said.
Lawyers for the DPP say that the law does not require the DPP to make a specific policy of the kind sought by Ms Purdy. They argue that the clear legal provisions of the 1961 Suicide Act, which make aiding and abetting suicide punishable with up to 14 years in prison, provide sufficient information when coupled with the guidance contained in the Code for Crown Prosecutors.
I think this is just incredibly sad. I know some posters here are against this kind of thing, but I firmly believe that anyone in this situation should have the right to decide whether or not to go on living. Obviously, there would have to be protection put in place to make sure nobody is "persuaded" to stop being a burden on the state, or their family. But it just terrifies me to think of being in that situation where every day is hell on earth. I wouldn't want to live like that.
Wheelchair-bound Debbie Purdy is seeking a landmark ruling to clarify the law on assisted suicide.
In a television interview just hours before the case got under way she accused the Director of Public Prosecutions of "cowardice" in refusing to give proper guidance.
David Pannick QC, appearing for Ms Purdy, 45, from Bradford, West Yorkshire, told two judges: "Her wish is to be able to ask for and receive assistance to end her life should living it become unbearable for her."
Assistance might take the form of getting her to Switzerland, or possibly Belgium, where assisted suicide is lawful.
Ms Purdy and her husband, Cuban jazz violinist Omar Puente, listened as Mr Pannick said: "Her dilemma is that she wants to delay her suicide as long as possible. She wants also to avoid the danger of her husband being prosecuted for assisting her. If he is likely to be prosecuted, then she is much more likely to travel abroad to commit suicide sooner rather than later."
Mr Pannick accused the Director of Public Prosecutions, Sir Ken Macdonald QC, of breaching Ms Purdy's Article 8 right to respect for her personal and family life under the European Convention on Human Rights by failing to publish a policy making clear the circumstances in which he would, or would not, allow a prosecution to proceed.
Although no-one has been prosecuted so far, Mr Pannick asked Lord Justice Scott Baker and Mr Justice Aikens to declare that the law required more information to be published than was currently available in the Code for Crown Prosecutors.
"We say the human rights convention, in accordance with the law of the country, requires the DPP to have and to publish a policy as to how his discretion will be exercised so that Ms Purdy and others like her can make one of the most fundamental decisions about their lives, and their death, with knowledge of the likely legal consequences - and not, as is currently the case, in a state of ignorance about the degree of risk of a criminal charge for a close relative who may help them to end their lives," he said.
Lawyers for the DPP say that the law does not require the DPP to make a specific policy of the kind sought by Ms Purdy. They argue that the clear legal provisions of the 1961 Suicide Act, which make aiding and abetting suicide punishable with up to 14 years in prison, provide sufficient information when coupled with the guidance contained in the Code for Crown Prosecutors.
I think this is just incredibly sad. I know some posters here are against this kind of thing, but I firmly believe that anyone in this situation should have the right to decide whether or not to go on living. Obviously, there would have to be protection put in place to make sure nobody is "persuaded" to stop being a burden on the state, or their family. But it just terrifies me to think of being in that situation where every day is hell on earth. I wouldn't want to live like that.
HiJo- Wise Sage
- Number of posts : 3997
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Lou Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:40 am
I have nothing against people wanting to kill themselves, but I dont agree with anyone assisting them. To me there is just too much scope for abuse. We already see that with abortion, initially abortion was supposed to be a last grasp option (as assisted suicide is being sold as now), but as the years have gone on we've seen it become just another type of contraception, with little regard for the life that is being extinguished.
I believe if we start down this road we'll end up at the same juncture. People will be saying 'oh well, she's deaf, dumb and blind, so has no quality of life, why make her suffer' or 'he used to be an outstanding athlete, so this head injury making him revert to a child is making him suffer unnecessarily' and Bob's your uncle (no offense Bob lol) they're helping them die with the odd lethal injection here and there.
If someone want to take a handful of pills, roll themselves off a cliff, drink themselves stupid and drown in a bath then good luck to them, as long as they do it alone.
I believe if we start down this road we'll end up at the same juncture. People will be saying 'oh well, she's deaf, dumb and blind, so has no quality of life, why make her suffer' or 'he used to be an outstanding athlete, so this head injury making him revert to a child is making him suffer unnecessarily' and Bob's your uncle (no offense Bob lol) they're helping them die with the odd lethal injection here and there.
If someone want to take a handful of pills, roll themselves off a cliff, drink themselves stupid and drown in a bath then good luck to them, as long as they do it alone.
Lou- Wise Sage
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Location : Cumbria
Registration date : 2008-07-20 -
Re: Assisted Suicide
by HiJo Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:32 pm
I think the problem is (as with the woman in the first post) when the person concerned doesn't want to die now but needs reassurance that when the time comes, someone will help. There have been cases of MS sufferers who planned to take a drug overdose but just left it too late and had lost the ability to swallow.
I agree that it's definitely open to abuse. But for genuine cases, it's surely the greatest act of love possible that you could help end someone you care deeply about. I really don't know if I could do it. But I would hope that if a loved one really was suffering and wanted to go, that I could help.
What a cheery subject.
I agree that it's definitely open to abuse. But for genuine cases, it's surely the greatest act of love possible that you could help end someone you care deeply about. I really don't know if I could do it. But I would hope that if a loved one really was suffering and wanted to go, that I could help.
What a cheery subject.
HiJo- Wise Sage
- Number of posts : 3997
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Lou Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:52 pm
I know there is the problem with people leaving it too late, but if I believed in god I'd say who are we to play god!
Its an emotive subject and one with no right or wrong answer. I know that I would never be able to help, and I know that sounds selfish. But when the doctor asked if we wanted to put a DNR on my mum's records after her last trip to the hospital, I couldnt bring myself to say yes, it would have felt like I was trying to kill her off.
Its an emotive subject and one with no right or wrong answer. I know that I would never be able to help, and I know that sounds selfish. But when the doctor asked if we wanted to put a DNR on my mum's records after her last trip to the hospital, I couldnt bring myself to say yes, it would have felt like I was trying to kill her off.
Lou- Wise Sage
- Number of posts : 5869
Location : Cumbria
Registration date : 2008-07-20 -
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Sally Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:40 am
This is too hard a question for me cos while I would hate to see someone suffering I'd be too scared to actually help them to die. I don't think I'd ever stop thinking that maybe a miracle could have occurred and they might have recovered. But it's hard to believe in god when things like this happen, why does he let people linger for weeks and months pointlessly? The person suffers and everyone who loves them suffers. Would a compassionate god do that? He takes them eventually so why let them suffer so much first?
Sally- Elder Council
- Number of posts : 1215
Registration date : 2008-08-09
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Lou Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:49 am
That's another good point Sally, there is always the chance of a cure. The chances are anyone that far gone wouldn't be past help from a cure, but there's always going to be that nagging doubt that it might have helped had they waited.
Lou- Wise Sage
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Location : Cumbria
Registration date : 2008-07-20 -
Re: Assisted Suicide
by HiJo Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:31 am
I think that would bother me too, the finality of it. If you did that, then a new treatment emerged, you'd never forgive yourself.
HiJo- Wise Sage
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Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Lou Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:59 am
This is one of the reasons why I'm against it. I know everyone is different and not everyone is as mentally strong as other, but just because someone is confined to a wheelchair it doesnt mean their life should be over. Look at Stephen Hawkins, and all the paralympians, ok not everyone will achieve their status, but surely it would have been better for this clinic to give the boy counselling so he could see what he could achieve. Rather than just saying (probably not literally), yes we agree your life is worthless so we'll kill you off.Police are probing the death of a paralysed rugby player who travelled to a Swiss assisted suicide clinic.
Daniel James, 23, of Worcester, died on 12 September in a clinic where he had travelled with the intention of killing himself, an inquest heard.
West Mercia Police said a man and a woman had been questioned over his death.
Assisted suicides are illegal in the UK but are tolerated by the authorities in Switzerland.
Mr James played rugby for England Under 16s and England students and was tipped for a future in the professional game.
But during a training session at Nuneaton Rugby Club he suffered a collapsed spine in a scrum in March 2007.
The former pupil at Worcester Royal Grammar School was paralysed from the chest down.
An inquest into his death was opened and adjourned on 19 September.
A trust set up in his name after his accident has raised nearly £25,000 for spinal research.
Det Insp Adrian Todd, of West Mercia Police, said: "A police investigation is ongoing and officers have spoken with a man and a woman in connection with the case.
"A report will later be submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service and an inquest into the death will take place in due course."
BBC correspondent Imogen Foulkes, in Berne, said assisted suicide has raised issues of concern in Switzerland.
She said it was permitted as long as the person carries out the act themselves and the helper has no "direct interest".
Dignitas, the clinic where all known British assisted suicides have taken place, offers help to people to end their lives if they are suffering a terminal illness, a chronic condition (including paralysis) or a mental illness.
The only stipulation is that a patient has expressed a wish to die and this has been certified by a doctor.
But the actions of Dignitas have provoked controversy and disquiet in Switzerland.
The issue of assisted suicide is now the subject of a government inquiry, the results of which are expected to be released early next year.
The inquiry will look at the counsel and care provided by assisted suicide groups and the practice of offering assisted suicide to non-Swiss citizens.
What does that say about the way they see disabled people
Lou- Wise Sage
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Location : Cumbria
Registration date : 2008-07-20 -
Re: Assisted Suicide
by HiJo Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:44 am
I agree with that, loads of people lead full lives from wheelchairs. I don't think assisted suicide was "created" with this kind of case in mind. The lad was obviously depressed and should have been helped for that condition, not encouraged to kill himself. How sad. 
HiJo- Wise Sage
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Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Assisted Suicide
by HiJo Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:30 am
A woman suffering from multiple sclerosis has lost her landmark legal bid to clarify the law on assisted suicide.
Wheelchair-bound Debbie Purdy listened as two senior judges rejected her High Court application for a ruling to force the Director of Public Prosecutions to offer further guidance.
Her lawyers argued the DPP was in breach of her Article 8 right to respect for her private and family life under the European Convention on Human Rights because of his failure to make the law clear.
Ms Purdy, 45, from Undercliffe, Bradford, West Yorkshire, wants to know if her husband will be prosecuted if he helps her travel abroad to die.
But Lord Justice Scott Baker and Mr Justice Aikens ruled at London's High Court that her human rights had not been infringed.
Lord Justice Scott Baker said: "We cannot leave this case without expressing great sympathy for Ms Purdy, her husband and others in a similar position who wish to know in advance whether they will face prosecution for doing what many would regard as something that the law should permit, namely to help a loved one go abroad to end their suffering when they are unable to do it on their own.
"This would involve a change in the law. The offence of assisted suicide is very widely drawn to cover all manner of different circumstances; only Parliament can change it."
Ms Purdy was granted permission to appeal because of public interest in the case.
Ms Purdy says she wants to "live forever". However she is a member of Dignitas, the Swiss organisation which operates specialist euthanasia clinics.
Now gradually losing strength in her upper body, she plans to travel to Switzerland to end her life if her condition becomes unbearable, But she fears that her husband, Cuban violinist Omar Puente, could face a jail sentence if he helps her.
I feel so sorry for this woman, but the verdict isn't a surprise.
Wheelchair-bound Debbie Purdy listened as two senior judges rejected her High Court application for a ruling to force the Director of Public Prosecutions to offer further guidance.
Her lawyers argued the DPP was in breach of her Article 8 right to respect for her private and family life under the European Convention on Human Rights because of his failure to make the law clear.
Ms Purdy, 45, from Undercliffe, Bradford, West Yorkshire, wants to know if her husband will be prosecuted if he helps her travel abroad to die.
But Lord Justice Scott Baker and Mr Justice Aikens ruled at London's High Court that her human rights had not been infringed.
Lord Justice Scott Baker said: "We cannot leave this case without expressing great sympathy for Ms Purdy, her husband and others in a similar position who wish to know in advance whether they will face prosecution for doing what many would regard as something that the law should permit, namely to help a loved one go abroad to end their suffering when they are unable to do it on their own.
"This would involve a change in the law. The offence of assisted suicide is very widely drawn to cover all manner of different circumstances; only Parliament can change it."
Ms Purdy was granted permission to appeal because of public interest in the case.
Ms Purdy says she wants to "live forever". However she is a member of Dignitas, the Swiss organisation which operates specialist euthanasia clinics.
Now gradually losing strength in her upper body, she plans to travel to Switzerland to end her life if her condition becomes unbearable, But she fears that her husband, Cuban violinist Omar Puente, could face a jail sentence if he helps her.
I feel so sorry for this woman, but the verdict isn't a surprise.
HiJo- Wise Sage
- Number of posts : 3997
Registration date : 2008-07-21
Re: Assisted Suicide
by Lou Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:30 am
Yes I feel sorry for her, but I still think it was the right decision by the judges. I wonder at her decision o go to the courts however, she's put the spotlight on her husband now, and when she does die the death will be placed under extra scrutiny. If she'd said nothing and kept it quite they might have been able to disguise it as a unfortunate death while on holiday or something.
Lou- Wise Sage
- Number of posts : 5869
Location : Cumbria
Registration date : 2008-07-20 -
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