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Post by HiJo on Sat May 02, 2009 4:03 pm

The "stepfather" of Baby P is facing a life sentence after he was convicted of raping a two-year-old girl.
The 32-year-old was found guilty at the Old Bailey of attacking the girl - who was on the Haringey at-risk register - after she gave evidence at the court, the youngest person ever to do so.
The north London borough's social workers also failed to save Baby P - who can now be known as Peter - from a tortuous death at the hands of the man, Peter's 27-year-old mother and lodger Jason Owen, 36.
The girl's video recorded police interview was played as her evidence


I was reading about the defence solicitors 45-minute barrage of questionning. I know they have to defend this creature, but to try to twist the words of a tiny little girl who's already suffered so much, no wonder people despise lawyers. They tied her up in knots, got her all confused, when she was being questionned via video link. One even told her she was "telling fibs". This is appalling and it shouldn't be allowed, they need to show commonsense when the witness is so young. Thank goodness they got a conviction though, the very idea of him getting off with this hardly bears thinking about. Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Lou on Sat May 02, 2009 4:28 pm

I'm surprised the judge allowed them to say she was telling fibs.

I've been in the video room when youngsters are giving evidence. It's so hard for them, because their parents can't be there, only someone from Witness Service or/and usher. And neither can do anything except say the witness needs a break. They can't hold the witnesses hand or comfort them, because then they are seen to be taking sides. It's really distressing, and TBH it's worse in the video room than the court room (even though the witness doesn't know that), because the defendant can still see them, but they can't get a full grasp of whats happening.

And at that age they really need to just use the video evidence taken at the police station, and perhaps have a defence psychologist in the background saying which questions need to be asked, because it's so traumatic even for an adult, never mind a child.

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Post by lulu on Sun May 03, 2009 5:27 am

Is this little girl from the same family as baby Peter? Is that why names were not disclosed when we first heard of this awful abuse? This monster should be locked away for the rest of his life. No child is safe around him.
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Post by Lou on Sun May 03, 2009 5:36 am

I'm not sure if they are the same family of not, but I know they said the names weren't released to protect other children in the family, so she might well be.

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Post by HiJo on Sun May 03, 2009 3:16 pm

I might have got it wrong, but I thought the little girl was connected to baby Peter in some way because it happened two years ago and the man, if you can call him that, was definitely living with Peter's mum then.
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Post by HiJo on Mon May 04, 2009 3:20 pm

Could this be why so many people hate lawyers?

Lawyers representing Baby P's 'stepfather' have confirmed they are considering an appeal against his conviction for raping a two-year-old girl.
Tim Bittlestone, of Leslie Franks Solicitors, said: "We will go through the process with this client as we do with every client.
"We presented his defence fearlessly as we are required to do so by the rules and now we will consider the possibilities with him as to any appeal as we do with all defendants."
Legal sources suggested any appeal could focus on the age of the victim, who was the prosecution's main witness.

She was just four when she testified at the Old Bailey via videolink and questions have been raised about basing a prosecution on the evidence of such a young witness.
The defendant is facing a life sentence after his conviction for the rape on Friday.
Baby P's mother denied a cruelty charge involving the same girl and was found not guilty by the jurors, who had no idea they were trying the couple in the Baby P case.
The 32-year-old's victim, like Baby P, was on Haringey council's at risk register.


And it does look like the little rape victim was baby Peter's sister. Those poor little kids, with a mother like that.

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Post by Lou on Mon May 04, 2009 3:26 pm

Actually I'd rather the lawyers did their jobs to the best of their ability, then he can't get let off because he didn't have adequate representation.

I think the evidence should stand, because a 4 year old is very good at getting their point across, even if they have a limited vocabulary.

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Post by lulu on Mon May 04, 2009 3:45 pm

You do wonder about the other children in the family, I think there were several more. God knows what happened in that house and how they will be affected in the future.
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Post by HiJo on Tue May 05, 2009 2:54 pm

Lou wrote:Actually I'd rather the lawyers did their jobs to the best of their ability, then he can't get let off because he didn't have adequate representation.


I see what you're saying Lou, but the very fact that doing the job to the best of the ability means trying to get him off is what sickens me. Unlike the jury in this case, this pondscum's lawyers knew right from the start that their client had already tortured one baby to death and was guilty of raping another one. Anyone who can defend the indefensible (which is what they're doing) is just as much scum as he is. I know it's the law, but it doesn't make it right. How do they sleep at night?
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Post by Lou on Tue May 05, 2009 3:13 pm

I honestly think they try not to think about what they're doing, otherwise it'd eat away at them. Unfortunately (IIRC) a judge can force a lawyer to take a case even if they don't want to.

But I know what you mean Jo, scum like him just need locking up and the key throwing away. What's just as annoying is he'll get special treatment with the rest of the paedophiles and rapists in prison No

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Post by Sally on Wed May 06, 2009 8:09 am

I really don't think I could do the job. I know everyone is entitled to a defence, but I couldn't bring myself to defend someone I know to be guilty. Don't these lawyers have children? From the above it looks like, rather than admit his guilt and try to get the best sentence possible for their client, they're actually trying to get him off scot-free. To say they're considering an appeal just shocks me. Shocked
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Post by HiJo on Thu May 07, 2009 8:49 am

That's how I feel too. To say they're treating their client like every other client, it's the same kind of defence the guards at the death camps used after the war, they were just doing their job. I know that's an emotional reaction, but it's how I feel. Anyone who even tries to help that disgusting excuse for a man needs to think about a different line of work. Crying or Very sad
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Post by HiJo on Fri May 22, 2009 10:35 am

The mother of baby Peter was condemned as selfish and calculating as she was jailed indefinitely for allowing him to die during a campaign of abuse.
Judge Stephen Kramer said she neglected her baby son for the sake of her relationship with her sadistic boyfriend - who also raped a two-year-old girl.
He was jailed for life with a minimum of 10 years, while the mother, and lodger Jason Owen, were locked up indefinitely for the protection of children.
The mother, 27, was told she must serve at least five years in jail and Owen, 37, of Bromley, Kent, at least three years.
Peter was 17 months old when he was found dead in a blood-spattered cot in August 2007 having suffered a broken back and fractured ribs. He had more than 50 injuries despite being on the at-risk register and receiving 60 visits from social workers, doctors and police over eight months.
Judge Kramer told his mother, who cannot be named: "You are a manipulative and self-centred person, with a calculating side as well as a temper. I reject the suggestion that you were blind to what was happening in that house or that you were naive. Your conduct over the months prevented Peter from being seen by social services. You actively deceived the authorities.
"Health professionals who saw Peter shortly before he died seem at the least to have missed the import of the injuries to him. However, that does not, in my judgment, absolve you from your culpability. You acted selfishly because your priority was your relationship with (the stepfather)."
The judge said he would give the boyfriend a tougher sentence than what was recommended in guidelines due to the "seriousness and extraordinary and abhorrent features" of the rape he carried out. He was given a 12-year term to run concurrently for his involvement in the death of Peter.
The judge said: "Any decent person who heard the catalogue of medical conditions and non-accidental injuries suffered by Peter cannot fail to have been appalled. It was clear that significant force had been used on Peter on a number of occasions.
"Whatever the truth of what took place and the role and motivation of each individual, the result was that a child died in horrific circumstances with injuries that can only have caused great pain and distress prior to his death


Thank goodness the judge wasn't swayed by this creature's letter in which she expressed sorrow at having let her baby down so badly. I'm only sorry the term five years was mentioned, fifteen would still be too short. If they could also remove her uterus to prevent her ever bringing any more innocents into the world, I for one would applaud it. Unfortunately, she has rights.
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Post by HiJo on Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:19 pm

Today's news about the identity of these two barely-humans is hardly news at all, it's been on the internet for months.

I honestly felt like crying when I heard that bastard had used a rottweiller to terrorise little Peter. Was there any level he wouldn't sink to? If only someone in authority had taken steps, that gorgeous little boy could have been adopted, and loved and cherished. Crying or Very sad
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Post by lulu on Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:01 pm

When you think of how many people who would give anything to be able to adopt a baby, and then those two evil b*******s being allowed to do this. It makes my blood boil.
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Post by Sally on Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:15 am

I blame social services and their insistence on keeping families together even families like this. Crying or Very sad
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Post by HiJo on Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:04 pm

I heard Baby Peter's devoted daddy is suing social services for his trauma and grief. Where was he when his baby was being tortured? He, plus Peter's granny, aunties, uncles, should either show a bit of shame and remorse or just shut up and go away.
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Post by Lou on Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:00 pm

No Seems like he decided to ignore his baby while he was alive and spotted a cash cow now he's dead. This whole affair is just one sickening act after another.

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Post by HiJo on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:51 pm

It's hard to believe what a disgusting piece of filth the stepfather really is and it saddens me that so many people apparently saw the signs of it years ago but never thought to say anything to the authorities about him living with young children.

I read that the RSPCA prosecuted him years ago. It seems he enjoyed catching frogs then breaking their legs just to watch them hop about in agony. Don't people realise that this is a bad sign? How stupid are they, to think a person who could do something so cruel is fit to look after a child?
Also read that he and his brother ("the lodger") used to beat up their granny but she never said a word. The neighbours saw the bruises. The stupid stupid woman, if she'd reported it she could have stopped all this. It makes me so mad. Evil or Very Mad
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Post by Lou on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:49 pm

I never read about the grandmother, if only she'd spoken up No

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Post by HiJo on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:02 pm

The three of them, Mum, stepfather and his brother, they're all appealing against their sentences. We can only hope it's decided the sentences are too lenient, and they're all increased. But I doubt it. :wall:
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Post by Lou on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:43 am

We can only hope

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Post by Sally on Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:03 am

They're absolute scum. I hope they're refused permission to appeal.
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